Andreea: comments on online romance, One Models story with her friend..

she's right. it's not a dating site. 99.99999999999% of the the people going there, looking for love, are gonna have their hearts broken.

Sometimes, I keep my gf company as a freeloader while she works (it can be a very lonely job, contrary to perception)... with mouth agape at the % of guys who go to her room, seemingly looking for a love connection. I'd say it's easily 50% if not more...of course...she can't help that she's the most beautiful woman in the universe still, it's absurd and delusional.

and yes, some models abuse this to their benefit....and I think it is despicable.

still, there are always anomalies....there are a few of us models in this very forum (self included) who can attest to it....and I cringe when people present personal experience as gospel.

This discussion is so cyclical. I can appreciate why people would stumble into this place looking for answers...but nobody here can answer for anybody somewhere else. Every relationship, business or personal, is unique. I don't even recommend reading the threads about it because they have absolutely no insight to add to anyone's personal experience.

in my opinion, of course.

Comicstash and Miss Jane, you should ask yourselves why is that?

Can it be because of the human interaction?Is it the training some models are taught to use the emotional connection to maintain a client base? Are these women actually looking for Mr. Right or Mr. deep pockets?

Does this industry play on those very aspects of the despicable(as you call it) act of feigning love interests with the ultimate goal to gain more of those tokens,credits?

I have personally seen it occur too many times, and guess what, I am not speaking about myself when I bring this point up here. It was the models that initiated the despicable acts to begin with. With all due respect, the anomalies are also there.After all, aren't we all human?

Why is it cyclical? Because it continues to be the most effective way to hook a person into being a good paying customer. Is there a flaw or a missing link that as you say, 50% of these members are looking for such meaningful interactions?

And yes, I do agree with you when you mention, that people are looking for love in the wrong places. Now add in the friend factor and what do we have?

Now your exactly correct when stating that each occurrence is an individual, personal and somewhat unique relationship. We are all individuals unto ourselves.

How would personal insights make it worthwhile if I may ask? It would be like ex lovers, or ex friends telling the world how their last relationship went. It's quite complicated because we humans are quite complicated to begin with. Might as well write a sad love story and publish it.

This post has been edited by TRAINER on November 09, 2009 05:08 am

Well it certainly wasn't my intent to stoke your fires again, but since it seems to have happened, I'll respond.

I am having a bit of trouble parsing your post, because you seem to have misread much of mine.

Ask ourselves what? Why it's not a dating site? That is, after all, the only similarity Jane's and my post shared. If so, the answer should be obvious...it simply is not a dating site. There's nothing more to it.

Your problem (and your canon, as I am learning) seems to be lumping everyone in together with your cynical view of the industry. There is no one answer to your questions...you have to know that.

You say "it was the model's despicable acts to begin with.." as if to counter what I wrote, when in fact, you restated exactly what I meant in the first place. I believe the models that practice that type of business deserve scorn. I am not at all for manipulating someone's heart. It's a dangerous and irresponsible practice, IMO.

From what I've seen through the extensive research I've done while becoming a model, is that those kinds of models are the vast minority. Perhaps you (and others) are confusing appreciation for love. A model can genuinely like a customer and enjoy their company without wanting to maintain an offsite relationship with them.

What is cyclical, is the discussion that takes place here. I wasn't referring to what takes place at work for the models and members. [edit to add: i reread your post and understand that you meant the discussion is cyclical here because so is the pattern on the sites, correct?]

YES...there certainly IS a flaw that 50% of the members I observe are looking for meaningful relationships on a cam site.

she talks about me openly in chat, and tells people that they shouldn't be there looking for more than fun...yet they persist. certainly that is a flaw.

I don't understand what your point is about looking for love in the wrong places, and the friend factor, et al. Looking for friends on a cam site is just as flawed, if you ask me. If it happens it happens...if it doesn't, you shouldn't be surprised.

I don't understand your question about personal insights at all. If you were responding to the last part of my previous post, I simply meant that people come here looking for answers to their concerns. There are no answers here, only stories.

This post has been edited by Cosmicstash on November 09, 2009 05:51 am

I am thoroughly enjoying this exchange.

I was going to write an after thought as well anyhow.

If it simply isn't a dating site then I wonder why those silly emoticons are so prevalent with hearts and kisses and stuff. I am sure you have watched the exchanges between individuals and come to think of it, what goes on in pvt, whether it is sexual or just verbal stays between the 2 participants.

Have you taken the time and actually read some of the profiles on MFC for example?

I think it is deplorable as well what does go on there.

You need to separate what I am trying to say from what I have written personally here regarding my experiences.

Now once again, I just the other day watched an exchange between a model and their so called love interest in complete disgust in a free chat. And then to watch a mutual friend be dragged through the mud as well.

And I might add that look where this thread started. A model professing her love for a member.

Now with all due respect again, my experiences are between the people I have encountered. But I to, have done extensive research looking at why "my experience" occurred and then watching it unfold elsewhere.

Now, as far as lumping everyone into a single cynical group, just open your eyes as to what you both mentioned here. Your asking yourselves why are these members getting so deeply involved? And you and others also think it is not acceptable. I am agreeing with you both. It is dangerous and a poor game at that. And all too frequently I have hinted towards that very dangerous line that seems to be crossed.

Now can you speak for a member looking at it from the other side of the screen? If you do not realize that when you say stoking someones fire, could it perhaps be the very thoughts and opinions you both have brought up. Now I really wonder who is lumping whom into a convenient blob.

Geez, looking for love in all the wrong places, and you do not understand what I was mentioning. Then what are you talking about? If Miss Jane says" that it is not a dating site where people fall in love etc etc...bla bla bla..." then my statement is quite relevant to what she wrote.

In closing, yes this all is flawed. And this forum is a testament to that very word. Now look, I am not trying to cause an arguement, but just an exchange of thoughts and opinions between each other.

This post has been edited by TRAINER on November 09, 2009 06:14 am

Comicstash and Miss Jane, I am posting here as a symbol of mutual understanding for all here. For the members(models and clients) and for anyone else that cares to read.

I will use the post here by the Romanian model as just a prime example as to what I believe both of you are missing.And it pertains to what you both are upset about. This thread and recent posts by a few others recently disturbs me,and focuses more scrutiny about it while exposing what does occur when discussing cyber cam relationships. I point you towards the long friendship thread as well as other threads here when discussing any cyberworld interactions.

In what I have observed, from personal and outside experiences, there is a major difference between Western cam models and those from Eastern Europe and other less developed or poorer countries. Yes, all cam models are there to earn a living. But, there is a noticeable difference in the underlying reasons why some are there.

You should re-read Andreea's post here carefully to begin with. Now taking that into consideration I will add my personal experience as well with 2 models from different countries from Eastern Europe. Then I will add a view about cam models from western countries and hopefully we can maintain a mutual agreeable conclusion and civility.

When I was involved with one model from Slovakia, yes, I did as you mention. Entertainment.Simple as you both state. But that model called me her best friend because I dared to discuss with her, on her terms, about her real life and other things even if I paid for it. Did I expect her to call me that(friend)? Nope, so what should I respond to her declaration, well, being a close friend I accepted what she wrote in a trustful and respectful manner. But in the end it was all about the money. Enough said about that one.Yes, I occasionally visit her chat to say hello or wish her a happy bday and every so often exchange emails.

Next, and my last and final interaction, was with a Romanian cam model. It was, if you bothered to read anything other than what strikes your fancy, an unexpected relationship. Now pay close attention here, I was not looking for friendship nor love or lust. In fact, I stopped paying for any of it for quite a while before we met. Now you of course will ask why did I continue to visit? Well honestly, to stop members, such as you speak about, from playing a game of misleading abuse and manipulation of models.Then came the pirate factor. I was not looking for a damn thing from anyone, but only to stop people from hurting each other, models and members alike. But, from my past acquaintance with another model from this woman's studio and chatting a bit with her in her free chat about our thoughts she wanted my email. You see, she got it from a colleague and was the aggressor. I let her into my personal life. I initiated nothing. The rest is personal and I have the proof of the pudding so to speak. So your way off base, if your lumping me, personally, into a convenient category. But this is not all about me, but I am simple proof as to what does happen so it is pertinent.

Now in both those situations I never said I love them first nor professed anything other than what I stated here to everyone. But as you see, your wondering why members are looking for love in all the wrong places. Well it starts with the models as well. Read profiles of models from other countries where you see things like" to meet the man of their dreams". And other things that pull at the strings of lonely members. As well, read the profiles of the men and women that have profiles on some websites too. Why in the world, do some websites allow members to send gifts? As you both think it is mere appreciation or is there more than simply meets the eyes.

I told the last woman not to mess with me emotionally. But as you may or may not have read, all was just plain bullshit after they entered into my personal life. And to this very day I will never forgive this persons self centered, immature, and cold hearted act of manipulation and brainwashed accusations and rumors. I have told that to them in many a way. I do not mince words as you both can attest to. Enough about me now.

To a model, that has not had the opportunities as most western people have, this work is more pressing and more crucial and critical to their survival. The mere lucrative nature of earning potential to them may be more susceptible to unscrupulous methodologies than that of say, an Amercan or Canadian or a model from other more established richer countries. Do you understand where I am pointing you to now.

There is a big difference when a model lives and can afford to do this work as a side job that allows one to afford a particular lifestyle as to one that does it out of desperation and greed. One can also argue, that there can be more deceptive and manipulative ways to skin a cat. And hence, I lead you to the main premise of this thread and your reactions now.

For some, it is as you perceive as a form of entertainment for others, while enjoying yourselves. While to others, it is a means to get whatever they can from those that visit them.

Another example, I point you to, is another forum called internet cam girls or other forums I have and others have posted about on this forum. And you wonder why men are looking for love. It is because quite a few other models, use any means necessary to catch that fish. And being quite diplomatic, I do not blame them to attempt catching as many fish they can. A starving person can be greedier than a hungry person as an analogy.

Now on the other hand, there are those that are as honest, blunt and open towards their clients as you both are, but do not lump everyone into one category. I agree with you both, that there should not be any use of false or misplaced emotional games that members and models do use. If it is a business, then it is a business and leave it at that. But the websites, the studios and bosses, and many models do use the bait of, love and friendship, to lure the repeat customer. You both should read the f4f or other model manuals as well as online forums that cater to the successful model.

Speak your mind and thoughts here. Stoke fires and not be afraid to start a fire. I believe both of you, as well as many on this forum do not wish to see anyone get hurt or abused.

Thanks for your thoughts and discussions, we should have more of these. Bring it all out in the open and not hide things for other motivations, both good and bad. If I am incorrect feel free to speak up.

From what I've seen through the extensive research I've done while becoming a model, is that those kinds of models are the vast minority. Perhaps you (and others) are confusing appreciation for love. A model can genuinely like a customer and enjoy their company without wanting to maintain an offsite relationship with them.
Comic stash it is good to hear you are civil and believe all the hosts, except for few, treat their guests as people and do not confuse them with a duck.
Seems every host has their own reason for being on-line and will set their own beliefs for being there and convince themselves that what they do is the right thing to do. Most will follow protocol to maximize their earnings. Which in the long run, is to show a fraudulant appreciation to the customer. We all know the more they can stroke a fellow’s ego the more he will pad their bank account. A long con will benefit them more than the wankers who come and go.
Is your girl upfront and tells her guests she has a boyfriend? As so many are sad girls that don’t have a boyfriend or just broke up, can’t keep a relationship while doing this job. Poor girls, so sad. Has no friends all the while her pimp, excuse me bf, are roaming around in the the background.
So Comicstash I would doubt your extensive research, as it may have a little bias attached to it. Open your eyes and you will see more appreciation = more cash
I believe this is not your style but research does indicate that it is the way of most as they are programmed and brainwashed to work the long con by studio pimps, web pimps, boyfriends, husbands as it keeps the cash rolling in.
What is cyclical? The same fraudulent lies of appreciation that are used over and over to keep guests coming back.
One last question? If these hosts like a customer and enjoy their company why would they not want to maintain a relationship offsite? Hmmmmmm perhaps it wouldn’t be as profitable.
I did find that comment comical.
Just my thought Stash not aimed to hurt or belittle, just another opinion.

Tben... I never understood that you were yourself a model...

If so, isn't a change of membership status in order?

We could certainly use your clear and honest voice in the Models section which has been closed to you so far...

Allow me to add that the research you posted last Summer on ImLive, its "wrapper sites," and its ownership and global network of commercial partnerships, is very through and a model for the rest of us to follow... We should do the same for MyFreeCams and Gamma Productions..

So "Hats Off" to you Tben, from the "Old MadHatter.."
Bravo and thank you for all of your research.

Look at the procedure for an status upgrade and write us at camgirlnotes@gmail.com.

UL

This post has been edited by UncleLewis on November 10, 2009 01:12 pm

UL...I believe he just forgot to use the quote feature when he replied to my words...unless you were just being sarcastic, which would be funny.

This is when the discussion becomes cyclical. I simply offered that everyone's experience is unique, and people reply with "I agree...but you are wrong, and let me tell you why..."

Ultimately, people need to take responsibility for themselves. Of course a model is going to be nice and/or complimentary. You don't go to a cam site so the model will tell you that you are fat and ugly...or that your dick is the size of an acorn. Well, I've seen that some guys do..but that's not my point.

I don't think it is reasonable to draw such conclusions between Eastern and Western cam models. The sample is simply too lopsided to draw accurate conclusions. Good people and bad people live everywhere.

trainer...prepacte, ale myslim ze ty nerozumies co povedal sa. tak dobre.

you write so much...unnecessarily. I don't disagree with you that it happens, only that you are using your personal experiences to inflate the frequency.

tben, don't have much to reply to because if you read my whole post, rather than just what you erroneously quoted, you will see that the answers are already there.

When I ran a restaurant, I had a fair amount of regular customers that came in. I looked forward to them coming and breaking up my crappy day with some chit chat. I wasn't trying to sell them any more than what they were there for...and they were there to fulfill a need (eating). I enjoyed their brief company and appreciated their business...it never dawned on me that I was required to ask for their phone number and maintain an after-hours relationship with them in order for my appreciation to be legitimate.

okay my mistake...But the rest of my comments on the quality of Tben's posts stands without correction..
UL

Dear Comicstash,

I may use my personal experience as an example often, but there are quite a few other examples that I have seen that do not include me. And it is not just in reference to the 2 countries I have mentioned in my previous post here.

One final addition if I may add. I recently have befriended one model,we both have common ideals and thoughts. No, we did not meet on any porn site. I have the utmost respect for her as I do hope she has for me, even as anti-camming I project these days. I do not expect anything from her as in sexual play or entertainment. I have never paid for a show with her. We have a trust and respect for each other that in all my years involved with women from this industry that no other woman can compare to. I am sure she will be quite embarrassed and humble if she does read my comment about her here now. But I consider her as a sister and she considers me her brother. We argue and disagree, but we do it with equal openness and civility and respect. We laugh and joke, we cry and console each other on bad days and I appreciate her concern and care and I give it back to her equally. And I hope we will be friends for life because she deserves to have a friend that she can yell at, one that listens to her and reciprocates the same in return. And she has earned my respect and I care for her very much. We both try to help each other and give advice to each other.

I also do want to stress that she has a bf so do not read anything more into the relationship please.

So as you all can see, friendship can be found online, and it does not cost anything.

Thanks to all who have the courage to speak their minds here,it is most welcome again.

This post has been edited by TRAINER on November 10, 2009 11:39 pm

Uncle if anyone should know it should be you. Know what? That I just can’t wait to get online each day to shake my jiggly bits. I feel it was my destiny. Make all my guests feel such a great appreciation for my talents that they keep cumming back and coming back and I never keep track of my earnings each day as I am there just for them and the scintillating conversation. Lol, just kidding. I couldn’t resist.

Now Stash your comments are cyclical as it is obvious that you have your own view points and beliefs as everyone here does. As with all in life, each individual will have different opinions and views. It makes life interesting, if we were all the same, now that would be boring.

Why are views and opinions different? Upbringing, society, life experiences, family, friends and the area of the globe where one may have been born or choose to live. These all factor into one’s own beliefs but in the end an individual will believe, draw conclusions and form opinions to justify their own existence and why they do what they do. Irregardless of their chosen profession. Is it wrong? No, each and every person is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions. Is it wrong? Yes, if it is done to manipulate others for one’s own selfish greed. If one listens and reads. It can bring them to a better understanding of themselves and others.

But some, maybe most, won’t allow themselves to listen, to learn, as other forces or emotions will not allow them to.

Unfortunately for some, their views and existence are forced upon them by others online and off.

So Comicstash perhaps you could break the cycle and post some of your extensive research for all to see and understand your view points. Hard facts can tell the truths and cut through the bullshit. It is out there. Hard to see at times but I is out there.

Yes, of course my comments are cyclical...they are part of the discussion. I called the discussion cyclical, not you.

I'm not sure why the tone of your post is condescending. Did I disrespect you somehow? You asked questions of me that I had already answered in a previous post, and I pointed it out rather than restate it.



This post has been edited by Cosmicstash on November 11, 2009 02:06 am

Sorry you feel that way. But if you reread my last post it may make more sense to you. It is not about being judgmental or condescending. It is about freedom of thought, being allowed to have a difference of opinion and express it. As you said there are many stories here, thoughts opinions, many may agree, many may disagree.

How one perceives the info posted here will be taken many, many different ways depending on each individual’s situation.

Perhaps the world is to wrapped up in themselves to be able to feel or appreciate what others may feel. Sad huh.

A few words from George Carlin. Seemed kind of odd coming from him as he was a grumpy foul mouthed comedian of the 70’s and 80’s

A wonderful Message by George Carlin:

The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings but
shorter tempers, wider freeways, but narrower viewpoints. We spend more,
but have less; we buy more, but enjoy less. We have bigger houses and
smaller families, more conveniences, but less time. We have more degrees
but less sense, more knowledge, but less judgment, more experts, yet more
problems, more medicine, but less wellness.

We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, laugh too little,
drive too fast, get too angry, stay up too late, get up too tired, read too
little, watch TV too much, and pray too seldom. We have multiplied our
possessions, but reduced our values. We talk too much, love too seldom, and
hate too often.

We've learned how to make a living, but not a life. We've added years to
life not life to years. We've been all the way to the moon and back, but
have trouble crossing the street to meet a new neighbor. We conquered outer
space but not inner space.

We've done larger things, but not better things. We've cleaned up the air,
but polluted the soul. We've conquered the atom, but not our prejudice.

We write more, but learn less. We plan more, but accomplish less.

We've learned to rush, but not to wait. We build more computers to hold
more information, to produce more copies than ever, but we communicate less
and less.

These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion, big men and small
character, steep profits and shallow relationships. These are the days of
two incomes but more divorce, fancier houses, but broken homes.

These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers, throwaway morality, one
night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that do everything from cheer,
to quiet, to kill.

It is a time when there is much in the showroom window and nothing in the
stockroom. A time when technology can bring this letter to you, and a time
when you can choose either to share this insight, or to just hit delete.

Remember; spend some time with your loved ones, because they are not going
to be around forever. Remember, say a kind word to someone who looks up to
you in awe, because that little person soon will grow up and leave your
side.

Remember to give a warm hug to the one next to you because that is the only
treasure you can give with your heart and it doesn't cost a cent. Remember,
to say, "I love you" to your partner and your loved ones, but most of all
mean it. A kiss and an embrace will mend hurt when it comes from deep
inside of you. Remember to hold hands and cherish the moment for someday
that person will not be there again. Give time to love, give time to speak
and give time to share the precious thoughts in your mind.

tben, I liked George Carlin not only because he complained about life that just contradicted logic. While he was funny for most of career. In his later years he pointed things out in a sarcastic manner so people can listen and actually notice what is failing and becoming lost forever due to selfishness, greed, among many other things.

When reading what you quoted by him, it stands by itself as a clear and present danger that we all as humans should stop and smell the flowers before it is too late.

Don't ever be angry at others just because you(not you, tben, but a general collective us) don't like what someone else is saying. It is easy to hear but is anyone really listening to what is said? Like I say, love can come in many forms and directions. Just because someone disagrees or seems like they are against what someone is doing, does not mean they do not care or love the other.

Good quote, tben.

Well, Ive been watching this thread and havent commented on it because honestly I dont know what to say or what you all are talking about anymore!

Discussions are always good and its wonderful when a thread evolves into something else but this is just all over the place.

I orginally had commented on rs3 and tealoneals statements about there not being anything real on cam sites. And I stand by it. These are not dating sites. Its entertainment.

Its takes 2 to play these games. And its not always the model who starts it. If youre looking for something real youre not going to find it on a cam site and let me tell you why.

Its like being on a never ending first date. Or meeting your girlfriends parents for the first time. Or going to a job interview. Everything they say is funny. You love the way they decorate. The picture of the ugly kid on thier desk is simply adorable. Are these lies? Or more a socially acceptable soft truths. You want to make a good impression. You want them to like you. And most of the times they do. But because its not a honest view of yourself it can never be real.

Sure I know someones gonna say that they have interacted with a cam girl when she was down, that theyve seen all sides of her, but thats simply not true. Im saying to consider that all of the positives are not always sincere. How can you have a relationship with someone like that?

It is possible to form real relationships with people online but incredibly difficult to do it in this enviorment. Cause when the model is working she always has to be 'on'.

In some ways I think thats why trainers relationship with his friend is sucessful. Because hes not friends with a model. He has a friend who happens to work as a model. Theres a difference. I doubt the relationship would be the same if they had met on a porn site.

On seperate note this thread has made for some interesting reading and is hitting a little close to home this week. Several days ago a member came into my chat. Had never seen him before but I treated him as I do everyone that comes in to my room. I was friendly. I complimented him. And we chatted and chatted and chatted. Almost 9 hours these last 4 days. What do you talk about for 9 hours? lol. I dont know. All sorts of nonsense. He finds me entertaining and why wouldnt he? Everyone likes to talk to someone who tells them their right. and theyre smart and who laughs at their jokes. I think Im good at what I do. But heres where that line comes in.

The line of whats ethical. Whats a soft truth and whats a hard lie. Where do you draw the line. Where does it cross from entertainment into breaking hearts. Last night he told me he thinks hes getting a crush on me. And what did I say to that. Well what can I say. Heres a man whom Ive spent 9 hours at i wont even say how much they charge per min Everything Ive ever told him was positive. Is this the point where i say, well honestly youre not that hilarious. I think youre amusing, I like your jokes but its more of a take it or leave thing with me.

So you know what I said. I laughed and said that crushes can be good things. Its how you know youre alive. Feeling your heart race every now and then. And with that I changed the subject.

Was I wrong? I dunno. Is the moral thing to do to break off communication with him. Id be foolish to do that. Hes a paying customer. I will not play those games though. Hook him in or what not. I believe in more 'living in the moment' Enjoy my company right now and not let it mean more then it is right now.

This morning he told me hes never felt better. That his confidence the last few days has never been higher. That hes thrilled to have met me. And thats what he paid for.

Thank you for understanding, Miss Jane.

Well said MissJane....But one thing is unclear for me. Did this client actually spend 9 hours with you in private chat? Thank you.
UL

Yes Uncle. At first we spoke for maybe 30 mins or so in the free open chat room, the first night. and then an hour and half alone in prvt. And since then everytime I turn aroudn hes there. And he doesnt like sharing my attention with anyone else. At first a model has to be suspicious of a person like that. Any time anyone spends a significant amount of money you have to be. Could be a stolen card. But thats where you have to know the site your on and what safeguards they have in place. Unlike the pirated videos where the sites have almost no approach to dealing with it. most sites take anything related to charges incredibly seriously. You click a button on the site im at, suspecting it could be fraud and they freeze the account. Make the member fax in a paper signing and acknowleding all charges to continue. So I know the charges are good.

Believe it or not thats another thing the model has to take into account when interacting. Worrying that members are scamming them. lol.

But you also have to worry if maybe the person has stalker potential. I mean I read what I write. I can see it could go that way.. possesiveness. jealously, spending at all costs... Again another risk that I have to balance out. For me, right now I feel I have it under control. No giant warnings have went off based on things hes said. I feel my earnings are secure and I think continueing it will be beneficial to me as it stands right now.

I just happen to care. I suppose some models dont give things a second thought. Hurt someone, play someone, hook someone. As long as their bottom line is good, then whatever. But see I believe in karma. What goes around comes around. And the last thing I want is some love sick crazy man after me cause i pushed it too far. That to me isnt worth it. I believe the first pirated videos were probably done out of spite by a member who got hurt by a model. And who knows how many girls are presently being stalked or harrased for the same reasons. its a cycle. Instead of paying forward good its all crap that gets passed around. One model breaks a guys heart, he turns around and charges back another model who then scams a guy to make up the earnings she lost so that guy records her and posts her online.. it just goes on and on.

MissJane, after reading your honest and thoughtful post ( one of many btw), I found myself agreeing with you that when pirates post a model online - both asserting their "ownership" over a models life and then surrendering it to any passerby - it does express feelings of deep contempt and hatred for models in particular and women in general . Some pirates - Alyesius on franc-tireur or TheClone on the- clearly state that they are exposing models before the world in order to shame them at home for "having opened their legs for mere coins." Others of course are affiliated web-masters who are drumming up traffic for their wrapper sites, and have a commercial motive for posting pirated videos.

But I had to ask myself where that male hostility towards models comes from?
I am not so sure that it can be brought back to some dishonest model who manipulated some member's feelings.. As Jensen suggests many guys who visit these web-sites are there to have a sexual experience where their romantic emotions are not engaged. It's a sex act without any preliminary courtship.. An abrupt decision to take some woman private and get her naked and then tell her "to do this and then do that."

But as Jensen suggests, sex without emotion is boring and maybe this is the attraction of an inter-active session with a cam model where the model can add some emotional warmth (some social time) to the experience of giving oneself a hand job and thus make solitary stroking a little less lonely.. But ultimately, this kind of sexual transaction is frustrating and not emotionally satisfying. It provokes anger against women in many clients and validates it.. Gonzo porn that demeans sexual love caters to that anger ,and so does acts of piracy that adds public shaming to the sexual humiliation of the model that takes place in the private session...
Just my thoughts..
UL

This post has been edited by UncleLewis on November 13, 2009 02:31 pm

Very well put Jane. Let's add another topic to the thread lol

I do believe you hit the nail on the head. It can no doubt be a vicious cycle. As one host once asked of me “Why can some men be so mean?”

As for the stalking it is an issue every host should be aware of. But have you ever thought that the host’s could be grouped into the category of stalker?

Here’s a scenario for discussion.
A member comes to her room, she sees the potential of a whale, cash cow or duck is available to her. She gives out one of her e-mail addresses or messenger nicks. Waiting for the member to contact her first. Then keeping the member in her fold and her, in the member’s life they continue to trade correspondence. The host may not see an individual member for awhile. Hmmm let’s contact him via e-mail, messenger and get back in his head Even though the member had advised her he is no longer interested.
Advertising, good business relations? Or could it be looked at as stalking?
Then again the member made first contact so she would be absolved of any wrong doing. Except for the contract they signed. But the websites have the “no contact” clause to cover their own ass and not he members or host’s.

This post has been edited by tben on November 13, 2009 10:31 pm

tben, you kind of added something I wished to elaborate further on.

Uncle, what you've brought up in some ways in my opinion is off the mark.

Miss Jane's statement about an eye for an eye revenge sort of deal when someone is rebuffed or hurt is one possibility. But what you may be missing is, that when a good paying member becomes attached or hooked to a particular model, that it is more than just what meets the eye. The business model changes and may become more involved as tben has stated.

There can be a mutual connection between the 2 parties, and then emails are exchanged and off work time chats and other stuff begins. It feeds upon itself. Just as if it was a real life relationship. But then the time spent in pvt becomes much more than just a wank and thank kind of thing.

And it also brings out a" protective concern" and "care" for the model as well as proving that the member in question, needs to prove they care about the model.Here is my proof(from that member), I tip you or spend money in private with you(the model) to prove my worthiness and more than a passing wank interest. Does the member see this as just part of the job of a model or is there more to it in the members eyes? Does the model use this to their advantage, just as you mentioned, Miss Jane? You see what you may consider business and a benefit to you and feel the member is paying for that, may not be the case as clearly as you want it to be.

But then quite a few models use that which i just described and prey on that occurring, to get repeat business.

It is very complicated and not just a view of pure porn for alot of male members.

I know this is fact, because I have spoken to some members that told me this and it has happened to me too, early on. It is not just simple porn anymore, that is what makes it so addicting.

Miss Jane, I have seen quite a few models that do entice the members into some false or even some genuine love or friend connection to further their own income. It happens more frequently than you realize and that may be why you see or sense a larger percentage of members seeking more than just a wank.

I ve been reading u all and I still don t see the conclusion ...there is friendship or love on porn sites?
I believe not.Those who believe that they will find true friendship there,are so naive in my opinion.
Or love...lets` be serious are u looking for a porn wife?I think is something wrong with a guy who signs up on a porn site looking for friendship.
Really ...What friendship would be that ?Me,working as a cam girl ,I can pretend for ages being their best friend as long as they pay for it .
And I can pretend that I love them if they want that as long as they pay.
I give them what they ask for.But at least I never used those tricks to make a member to send me money.So,I think I am not so dirty as others.
Is extremely naive to believe that a model can love someone who met on a site.If this happens ...then she has a problem too.
I heard about situations when a model married with a member and I believe that is all about money.
And about what Trainer said-that true friendship can be found online-yes,it can be but not on porn sites.A cam girl is there just for making money,not to find love nor to find friendship.
And don t forget,once u met a girl there...she will be friend of your wallet not yours as person

Kudos to Andra(shortened due to laziness).

Andra, you have hit the nail on the head so to say.

Example: A member professes their friendship and concern because a model has told this "bank"(my new name for a member with deep pockets) about her financial situation. The "bank" now feels, as a friend, I will prove a worthy friend now, and assist this model to meet their goals by going pvt or tipping. As quite a few have told me this,both those members that I have no friendship with and those that are my friends.

Who are you helping? In the short term, yes, you may be helping them buy food, or pay for this or that. No less, your feeding the system(studios, websites, bosses etc) where that money is filtered into a paltry remaining crumb of what the member has purchased. But in reality, are you changing the primary reason that made these women choose this job? Are you changing the very essence, the economic conditions,the environments? Are you teaching or advising others that without changing the root problem of it all, your just placing a bandaid on the obvious result and not fixing or changing anything? In the end, and I use this analogy in the work I do, that fixing the obvious result and not addressing the root cause that created what you now see, will never fix anything. It is just a band aid fix and will return over and over again and again.

If you really gave a damn, you would not give a family member money to buy more drugs just to alleviate their current situation without stopping the addiction.

What really makes it so hippocritical, is that although the member(mr.deep pockets) says he does this as a friend to help their model friend out, I ask, are you really helping them out in the long run?

The primary reason why a model is there is the due to economics. So if you really are a friend, and you really really want to help a friend out, then do it without feeding the system.

If a friend of mine wants to seriously help me,for example, they don't go to someone else, hand over $500 dollars and watch their $$$$ get watered down to half of what it once was initially. Why do I mention it this way? Because, many say they are friends, but once again, that is not what friendship is, in the real definition of it all. A member that claims to be a friend, and is helping their model friend, is there for more than just what they have fooled themselves into believing is friendship. You, as a member, are there for more. Your there to see your "friend" get naked from those friendly helpful tips or privates. Once again, money does not buy friendship. It never will, get that through your heads. That is what Andra, Comicstash and Miss Jane are explaining here.

If you all want the deceit and manipulation to end, I propose the websites to change their marketing of it all.

Don't make these websites similar in design to a messenger program on the premise as a friendly community of deep friendships. That is a joke. It is a business, where money is exchanged to view porn in a illusional fantasized live content form, which underhandedly uses friendship and love to coerce and hook members into a false sense of reality.

Everyone that simply gets upset or angry, when they are fooled, or hate that members try to illicit a deeper relationship avoids the simple facts and obvious illusion displayed by these websites.

Like Andra and Miss Jane say, if your a friend, you DO NOT need to see your friend naked or pay your FRIEND to be naked in the guise of calling it friendship. And if your looking for a wife, I suggest looking first where your wallet can be left out of the equation. If you think money can buy those things in life, you deserve to be fooled.